on the listen live button. it's every weekday from 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. eastern. we'll have another great tv show for you on fox business. in the meantime, i hope to hear you on the radio.

i do believe if we can resolve the issue of iran's nuclear program that can serve as a major step down the long roads towards a different relationship, one based on mutual interests and mutual respect. i have made it clear in letters to the supreme leader in iran and more recently to president rowhani, we prefer peace. >> the iranian's rebuffed the offer at a meeting on the sideline seeking at least a hand shake or a few friendly words, apparently. something his administration was

prepared to call an opening. we'll explore how far the obama administration has gone in some sign of any prague with the iranians and why mr. obama continues to disappoint world leaders. also tonight, the ken yn government's four-day standoff with terrorists finally ending. ken why's president saying his military has, caught, ashamed and defeated the al qaeda-linked terrorists believed to be responsible for more than 70 murders, the hail of gun fire caught on video. take a look at this. >> firing again. you can probably hear it behind me. it's quite heavy. you got that? yeah. rapid firing and somebody's coming. >> we begin tonight with president obama's new stance on

iran. despite the concerns of lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle, and the warnings of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. president obama directed his secretary of state to sit down with his iranian counterpart in the highest level talks held between the united states and iran in more than 30 years. mr. obama cited rowhani's stated desire to chart a more moderate path and to thaw relations between iran and the united states. and respond to direct talks on the iranian nuclear program. but so far, no progress. just two hours after those statements, the iranian's regime declined an offer to have a quote/unquote encounter between president obama and president rowhani on the sidelines of the yipts general assembly. a senior obama official said, quote, it is too complicated for the iranians to do at this point.

president obama, the nobel peace prize winner left no stone unturned from syria to e i didn't want to iraq, afghanistan, the arab spring, al qaeda and drone warfare. the president pressed for peace but warned of u.s. power. he touted american exceptionalism and claimed the world is a safer place since he became president. but outside the president's wide ranging speech, the focus remained on iran. fox news chief white house correspondent ed henry has our report. >> reporter: after days of vague statements, white house officials made clear today president obama was willing to have a hand shake or informal meeting with new iranian president hassan rowhani. >> the roadblocks may prove to be too great but i firmly believe the diplomatic path must be tested. >> reporter: while the president would have faced more charges of

weakness on the world stage if the photo emerged, late today white house officials said it was rowhani that begged off the meeting. though he continued to say all the right things. >> translator: yes to peace and no to war. >> reporter: secretary of state john kerry will meet later this week with the iranian foreign minister, the highest level of contact in 34 years and today the president directed kerry to work to a diplomatic solution. >> i don't believe this difficult history can be overcome overnight. the suspicions run too deep. but i do believe that if we can resolve the issue of iran's nuclear program, that can serve as a major step down a long road towards a different relationship. >> reporter: it could be an extremely long road of drawn-out talks that allow iran stall for time according to israeli

prime minister netanyahu to meet with the president obama next week at the white house. >> iran thinks soothing words and token actions will allow it to continue on its path to the bomb. >> reporter: even though netanyahu is not speaking at the u.n. until next tuesday, he made his voice was heard today from israel. >> we will not fooled. >> reporter: the president declared the goal in iran is not regime change. while also insisting he's willing to take military action in the mideast. >> united states of america is prepared to use all elements of our power, including military force, to secure our core interests in the region. >> reporter: it was the president's initial willingness the use force and then follow through on it that put him on defense ahead of these meetings. though administration officials insist it was the stick of potential force that got bashar al assad to the negotiating table to admit he has chemical

weapons. >> now there must be a strong security council resolution to verify that the assad regime is keeping its commitments. and there must be consequences if they fail to so do. >> reporter: there are already indications russia will block an attempt to add military force to a u.n. security council resolution raising questions of whether there's teeth to make sure that assad turns over his chemical weapons. lou? >> and thank you very much, ed henry. for more on the president's speech at the united nations, i'm joined now by ambassador john negroponte. mr. ambassador, great to have you with us. >> thank you. >> your reaction to the president's speech today first at the general assembly? >> i thought it was quite complete statement about his policy towards middle east and one thing that caught my

attention was that it was quite specific with regard to the immediate diplomatic objectives, namely the iranian nuclear program and then also the middle east peace process between israel and the palestinians. >> the president seemed to me to speak of the iranian nuclear program as the fulcrum for whatever -- whatever relationship might result if there can be an opening found and exploited by the two nations. this seems on another level to be the most difficult issue between the two nations. your thoughts? >> well, it is kind of a double-edged sword because i see on the one hand if you negotiate about the nuclear issue and you reach some kind of resolution, maybe the price the president's willing to pay for that is to place less emphasis on the other objectives we have ve sa vie iran. other the other hand, there's no doubt about it if there could be

a meaningful discussion about the nuclear discussion and we'll see talks take place between secretary kerry and his iranian counterpart later this week, if they can get that moving in the right direction, this would be a significant development indeed. >> benjamin netanyahu basically urging realism and insisting that there be rationality and not sentimentality guiding either u.s. or european thoughts as the two nations seem to be sort of struggling toward one another, at least in the short term. but i for one thing i found is that i thought first of all the president's speech was rather cleat. secondly, i thought in talking about our core interests and our willingness to keep the use of force on the table as an element of national power and influence in the region i thought those were strong doses of realism. >> would you say that that was the most rational outline of

u.s. interest by the president in the region since he took office? >> i certainly thought it was very complete and i thought it was very comprehensible. he said one, two. these are the two things we really want. here's the four or five core interests we have got and then a more general discussion about democracy and so forth but in a way democracy was sort of third place, democracy promotion which i thought sounds like a realistic approach. >> and certainly in the region, and certainly in the case of iran and certainly syria. going forward, you served amongst those five ambassadorships, one to the united nations. how realistic is it to expect that the russians will not block an effort in the security council for meaningful, a meaningful resolution? >> well, if you are talking about the syrian situation, i think that's going to be a problem. my view is that we always start out underestimating the amount of time it's going to take to

work out these kinds of resolutions so this is going to be a pace even if it's moderately successful, it's pain staking and time consuming. >> and the president's folks all starting to use this word opening as they tried to garner some support amongst the iranians for a sideline meeting, a meeting at the margin as i like to construct it. >> i'm glad it didn't happen. i don't think the ground was sufficiently well prepared and i can't imagine what benefit would come out of that rather than sensational photographs and hyper speculation of the chance encounter on the u.n. premises. >> and going forward, your expectation? will the united states and russia be able to work together constru constructively in the region? >> well, i think a good faith effort is being made to do that and i think the russians you have to stick with it. you can't treat them as a sort

of a fair weather friend or something. you have to work with them and we have had experience in the time of the soviet union and subsequently. when you could do serious negotiation with the russians. >> this appears to be one of those times, at least the -- >> it's an opportunity, yeah. let's be realistic. >> i was being very, very, very careful. >> let's be careful. >> great to have you here. >> thank you. democrats, republicans, conservatives, liberals. is our country ready for a third party? brad thor joins us to tell us why he thinks conservatives should stand by the gop, next.

my next guest supports senator cruz's speech and his efforts and says real conservatives need to take back the republican party. joining me now, "the new york times" best selling author brad thor, also an addition to a brilliant fiction writer, a conservative and brad, good to have you here. you have to say senator cruz is giving it one heck of a try. he is standing at the bridge all alone, isn't he? >> well, he is, lou. i'll tell you, as a conservative, it is nice to see people in the republican party doing this. instead of sending -- saying let the principles fall where they may, he's saying let the chips fall where they may and an important moment for us as conservatives. we have now someone along with rand paul and mike lee and a handful of others willing to stick it to the establishment in washington, d.c. i'm very, very happy to see this. >> and rand paul, i believe, will also be coming back to

speak to give the senator some reprieve. some respite from it all. but at the end of the day, they are absolutely overmatched by the power of the establishment and the leadership, the establishment of the republican party and the leadership in the senate, aren't they? >> well, they are. and you know, lou? we're talking a lot about the fund of obama care. i would like to see conservatives defund the gop. i don't think any conservative that loves liberty and freedom should send a dime to the gop. i think we ought to be targeting people to see win these races and contribute directly to the campaign but, you know, we have a big thing of is it worth it and then kicked back the house and will they shut down the government? let's be clear. the gop are terrible story tellers. there are no storytellers in the republican party not good enough to make the case not only within the party to the american people and we hear about the shutdown

of 1996. there's revisionist history. the republicans didn't get creamed. we picked up two seatings in the senate in 1996 and as a matter of fact in '96 we controlled 56% of the class and came out of the election with 62% of the senate. and if that happened today, the democrats who have 60% of the senate and if we got that kind of an increase 62% we'd add 8 seats. so, you know, let's shut it down and vote our principles instead of this quote/unquote smart politics that continually loses. we get bob dole, john mccain, mitt romney. they can't win. so why do we listen to the gop? >> well, there's -- it's a great question and, you know, the issue becomes, are we to see the con stlux of a third party? are you prepared for that? >> lou, you and i have chatted about this before. if you buy a new house and don't like the counter tops and the counter tops, you swap out the counter tops and swap out the cabinets. we can take over the party if we

control the precincts. this means at the local levels. conservatives need to do more than write checks. they need to get involved in the neighborhoods, politics at the very base level. if we control the precincts, we control the party and we'll send people with our values and principles up through the ranks. screwing up the country for us. >> and where is the leadership right now in the republican party? ted cruz is standing there. senator rand paul. and outstanding senator and likely candidate for his party's nomination. but who is there to guide this party, these interests that are so diver gent? john mccain, lindsey graham, i don't know what planet they're from. >> well, you know what? jeff lord had a great article on the american spectator and he talked about everything that's happening to ted cruz happened to ronald reagan. you had the gop moderates that

say he's a right wing cook. we don't want it and once reagan got in the establishment and reagan was president is working against him on initiatives he wanted to achieve so i think that's great company for people like mike lee, ted cruz and rand paul to be in. if people say what's happening to you and being attacked is like what happened to reagan, you're doing something right. keep it up. we're behind you 100%. >> the world -- you may not realize this, brad, the world is according to the president more stable than it was five years ago. i just want to get as we wrap up here your thoughts about the president's speech. >> you know, eventually people are going to wake up here and say enough with this. they make this stuff out of thin air. the world is not a better place. north koreans restarted the program. iran is closer to a bomb. i listened to you with the ambassador before my segment. where was obama and his company in 2009 with the green revolution in iran to help the young people overthrow the mull las in iran? he was mia and just cared about

the ousted dictator in honduras. took almost two weeks to respond to the green revelatiolution ant a great opportunity. >> thank you for being here. >> you're welcome. it was an impressive accomplishment. 21 hours detailing the harmful effects of obama care, senator cruz galvanizing conservatives and much of the country. but will house republicans act? congressman james langford with us next.

thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. you're not linda. i'm filling in for officer owens. she used double miles from her capital one venture card to take an early vacation. buckle up. let's go do cop stuff. [ siren chirps ] license and venture card, ma'am. was i going too fast? oh, you'd be going twice as fast if you had double miles. [ male announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one nture card. freeze! don't touch the face! can i drive? absolutely not.

what's in your wallet? absolutely not. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-ze price. (aaron) purrrft. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro. then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. [ crickets chirping ] but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? [ exhales deeply ] [ male announcer ] well there is biotene. specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants, biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy, too. [ applause ] biotene -- for people who suffer from dry mouth.

my next guest is a part of conversations about next steps for the house republicans and the budget battle, joining us now, congressman james langford, chairman of the house republican policy committee, a member of the house oversight committee and, congressman, good to have you with us. i have to start by asking you about the other chamber. the spectacle of watching a senator speak for 21 hours, which i give him great credit for his emotional, mentally, physical strength, but the purpose of the 21 hours of what used to be call eed speechifyin

in places resulted in a vote of 100 senators for cloiture including senator cruz themselves. what do you make of that? >> we try to send something to the senate and say the debate needs to be there. this is something extremely important to our constituents. to say they have major issues with obama care, it is not the hope and dream of what they hoped it would become but what it's actually become and for me we sent what we could to the senate. we'll let the senate hash out what they can. >> i respect your desire to leave the senate where it is, twisting in its own political winds, but the fact is, senator mark warner telling my colleague neil cavuto today that we have to pass this to find out when's good and bad in it. this tops nancy pelosi's

statement. can this get anymore bizarre? >> it is and it can and congress never ceases to ignore me by ignoring the facts and realities on the ground. we talk to people in the house and the democrats say but it's going to do this and this. i said it's a nice hope it might do that some day. this is what's really occurring. people's premiums really are going in. physicians and hospitals having to merge or close down. doctors going on salaries. people can't find a doctor anymore that takes medicare and very difficult to find -- have medicaid and an expansion of medicaid to solve this. you can't find a physician, one thing to say this is going to be great one day. it's a different thing actually the person trying to get care. we're trying to watch out for those individuals. this is not a personal fight. this is an issue of real policy issues that have to be resolved and trying to take it in a right and rational way. >> correct, rational way and

that is something one would hope the senate would emulate. if you can hold that course of leadership of your caucus can hold that course, here's the thing. i see a lot of coverage about the 21 hours of speechifying. i see lots of coverage of government shutdown. i hear lots of half-baked nonsense about obama care. i don't see people going through the list, the part of which you just articulated. that is, a shortage of 130,000 doctors by 2025. >> right. >> 90,000 doctors short by this decade. premiums rising as we have reported this endlessly and it's as if in the national liberal media this is a popularity contest, some sort of political maneuver contrivance. where do we go from here,

congressman? >> it is the simple thing i come back to over and over again. there were three things states when obama care was passed. reduce costs. make sure every american is covered. it will increase the quality of care. no one's saying that anymore. because there is no perception to increase quality of care. there is no reduced cost. it is going up. at the end of it, cbo said 31 million americans will be uncovered and we have 31 million americans not covered in it. we have to come back to what's occurring on the ground and say this actually does not work. what a lot of people said from the beginning. made folks nervous and now seeing it, they're fearful of it because they want this to go away. we try to work through this. whether it's mandates on employers, on individuals. to come at it a piece at a time and say you can't ignore it. >> always good to talk with you.

appreciate it. >> thank you, lou. president obama asking for help from bill clinton? this time trying to sell obama care to a reluctant public. does bubba's assistance signal an obama's endorsement for hillary in 2016? we'll find out. best selling for of "the amateur" ed klein joins me next. . neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen.

i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

if you have high cholesterol, re's some information that may be worth looking into. in a clinical trial versus lipitor, crestor got more high-risk patients' bad cholesterol to a goal of under 100. getting to goal is important, especially if you have high cholesterol plus any of these risk factors because you could be at increased risk for plaque buildup in your arteries over time. and that's why when diet and exercise alone aren't enough to lower cholesterol i prescribe crestor. [ female announcer ] crestor is not right for everyone. like people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness,

feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. is your cholesterol at goal? ask your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't ford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. president obama turning to the clintons again yesterday to help push obama care less than a week before the insurance exchanges are set to open. my guest now says all of this is part of the clinton plan for 2016. joining us now is ed klein, the author of "the new york times" best seller and i do mean best seller, "the amateur." great to have you here, ed. >> great to be here. >> this is looking a little like the hatfields and mccoys. you know, have joined forces and now are -- it's a love circle of some kind.

what's going on? >> well, according to my sources everything that you see bill clinton do today has to be seen through the prism of 2016. >> right. >> he understands that this is an unpopular health care bill. >> like every other democrat doesn't give a rat. >> well, you know, the base actually likes this, this bill. hillary's going to need the base when she runs for president. >> sure. >> in 2016. so he has nothing to lose by saying some nice things about obama care. but there's something else, too. ever since the convention, the democratic convention when bill gave that fantastic speech for obama, he's been trying to put obama in his -- as a chip that obama owes him things. and by coming out for obama care, he hopes to get an endo e endorsement from obama. >> you don't think that deal is already baked?

>> no. >> really? >> i know it's not because i know the clintons think and this i got from the clinton inner circle, they think that the story that "the new york times" ran about the clinton foundation and very critical of the foundation -- >> devastating if it was anybody else. >> that it was leaked from the white house, the obama white house. >> nefarious son of a guns, huh? >> uh-huh. >> i thought they were getting along so well. the's still friction. >> there's friction and bill loves to show up obama and by selling obama care even better than obama sells it, as he did at the clinton global whatever the hell that thing is called. the clinton global initiative. >> right. >> he shows he's the professional and obama is still the amateur. is there anything obama's done in your judgment lately, foreign policy, domestic, to dispel the

amateurish standing that he's been given? >> lou, people stop me on the street, literally, people who read my book and say, you got it all wrong. i said, really? why? he's worse than you portrayed him. he's more incompetent, more inept. this is from democrats as well as republicans. >> this president, yet his numbers, he's underwater. but his gallup approval rating still stays in the mid-40s and it seems that he's invulnerable below that. >> i just got this feeling that when the american public realized he wanted to shake rowhani's hand at the united nations -- >> they had a campaign built around it. >> what a humiliation for the president of the united states that he wants to shake the hand of -- >> do you know how many news organizations had lots of language about an opening with iran? i mean, the white house obviously was feeding the opening language to all of these

-- >> that's right. >> -- reporters. there was no opening. there was no -- what was the other expression? the sideline meeting, the photo-op, a discussion at the margins at the united nations. i mean, this is pure -- when you talk about you coined the amateur as the title for this administration. he's living up to it. >> he is. >> i mean, and it's sad to watch. >> it's sad for us as americans to see our country humiliated. our country looked at as weak and our enemies saying we can take advantage. putin who eats his lunch every day, the iranians who make fools of him. the syrians who are now going to be in place forever and ever. the assad regime. >> the one thing, the one thing this president can say, he to this point has outsmarted the

republicans. will we ever see that change? >> on that issue i think we have to make a distinction between obama the politician and obama the president. on the one hand, he's quite a good politician. >> he's been very, very -- >> very effective in sidelining the republicans. >> you would have thought given his record that there was no way that just a blank line on the ballot that he could have prevailed. >> that's right. >> it's stunning stuff. >> it really is and sad. >> ed klein, it is always delightful to see you. >> great to be here. thank you. up next, the new take on homosexuality and abortion. our own father morris next. americans take care of business.

they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach.

what's going on in the vatican?

pope francis saying the church needs a new blan on issues like gay marriage and abortion or he says it may fall like a house of cards. joining us now father jonathan morris. great to have you with us. >> thank you. >> what's this pope doing? let's start with -- >> that's a good start. i love it. >> he says the pope -- the pope saying, quote, and if we could see this full screen, the church sometimes locked itself up in small things. in small minded rules. the most important thing is the first proclamation. jesus christ has saved you and the ministers of the church must be ministers above all. >> yeah. >> that's -- that is so eloquent and so powerful. what is he -- where is he going? >> it is. it lends itself to misinterpretation, obviously. the church should not insist only on these issues. like gay marriage, like abortion, et cetera. but he knows that it lends

itself to misinterpretation and he says i'm willing to take that risk. he's saying there's a real danger, also, in speaking the truth that the fullness of the gospel message as he sees it is not proclaimed and so he says i'm choosing to talk about mercy and he even said that people have reprimanded him. imagine, people pope for not speaking out enough about abortion, gay marriage, conception. he says i'm doing this on purpose. >> i wouldn't think that he would not be doing it with significant purpose. are we seeing a real shift in the church, its doctrine? and a shift by this pope? >> not a shift on doctrine. he himself said i'm a son of the church. he said the church teaches what it teaches and as catholic teaching would say not even the pope can change dogma. that's something revealed through god through the person of jesus.

we are seeing a radical shift and some conservatives are afraid i think recognizing how radical this is. this is a radical shift on tone, radical. >> and no more representative in that shift in tone, pope francis over the weekend telling a crowd in sardania, we don't want this globalized economic system. which does us so much harm. men and women have to be at the center of an economic system as god wants, not money. the world has become an idolator of this god called money. talk about something that could be interpreted incorrectly and a number of directions. >> absolutely. lou, i think you're only one of the journalists brought this up. everyone is focused on abortion and gay marriage. pope francis is saying, the economy is for or should be for

humanity. instead of that the economy is for making an individual wealthy. that humanity is more than just making money. and he's saying if the global system is set up in such a way that money is the idol, we're very screwed up. >> you know, it's startling because you -- you know, we just don't have voices right now saying there's a balance to be achieved in life between materialism and wealth. >> yeah. >> between our material lives and our spiritual lives. i mean, you would think -- when i think about that, his voice and his words on this issue are remarkable. >> one thing that pope francis said giving this talk is jobs, jobs, jobs. >> amen, brother. >> if there's no jobs, the dignity of the human person is lost. if there's no job, in other words, work is not just about making money. it is actually a job can help a person realize who they are.

that's the dignity of the human person. the fact that he's saying that money can be an idol does not mean that making money is bad. in fact, he's saying making money in terms of carrying out a job makes us more human. >> and this -- this country and this economy is all about equal opportunity and creating opportunity and respecting a man or woman no matter what their work is, respect them for the work they do. >> that's right. >> father, it is great to have you here. >> lou, it's great. up next, america rapidly turning into a welfare state. i think it's fair to say it's there. we'll show you how the democratic party's never ending thirst for power, for bigger government, well, that drives them. what drives the republicans? we'll be right back. orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past.

and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mmy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

america has been fighting a war on poverty since 1965. almost a half century ago. and it is a war that we are still losing. i repeat, losing. federal and state governments spend just over a trillion dollars a year. means tested welfare programs, a trillion dollars. doesn't include social security or medicare. the federal government's share of that trillion dollars is just about three fourths, 750 billion. more than we actually spend in this country on our national defense, the justice department, transportation, education combined. what are we doing? why doesn't somebody ask, what are we doing? it's increased 32%.

it's up almost a third since president obama took office. what is all of that spending got? according to the census bureau, the nation's poverty rate remains at 15%. 15%. 47.5 million people live in poverty under the definition of the federal government. that is, spending about $22,000 per person. in poverty relief. $22,000. here's a radical idea that will excite every bureaucrat in the country. if we just wrote a check for $22,000 to each person, each year, we'd be well on the way to eliminating technical poverty in the united states and several times over. so what are the proven weapons? what have we learned since 1965? we actually have learned something.

it's about work and it's about marriage. last year, more than 26 million 18 to 64-year-olds were living below the poverty line. 57% of them didn't have a job. and according to the heritage foundation, 71% of poor families with children are headed by single parents. but we don't want to have a culture discussion, do we? we don't want to have a psychological understanding of when's happening in this country. we don't want to be politically correct. we can't talk about the impact of families that break up. we don't want to talk about the consequences which is devastating. and for which in large measure we spend tremendous sums of money. and to what effect. as for families with children but not living in poverty, 73% of them are headed by married couples.

coming up, we're going to be talking with a scholar and author who's written a tremendous new book. he says liberals' belief there should be no limits to the welfare state created grave consequences and they're very serious implications for this country's destiny. he wrote the book "never enough, america's limitless welfare state." i guarantee you you want to hear what he has to say. he's here next. stay with us. any last requests mr. baldwin?

do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. just pick that flight right there. mmm hmmm. give it a few taps, and...it's taken care of. this is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. you bet. now if you like that, press the red button on top. ♪ how did he not see that coming? what's in your wallet?

how did he not see that coming? [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. my next guest is william bogely, a scholar, a political analyst, he is the senior editor of the clairemont review of books, author of this book, it is entitled "never enough: america's limitless welfare state." william, good to have you with us. the battle right now in washington, defunding obama

care, the continuing resolution, it is the -- your book addresses these issues. we have a government that has grown seemingly without end and there's no articulated vision that i'm aware of by the left as you say that says, what is the size of government, the limit of government. why do we tolerate such a vision? >> well, i think we tolerate it because people if asked in the abstract, do you want big government or not, would say, no, we don't think that's a good idea. but when it's sold to them in little bitty slices, do you want a government to address this problem? that needy group. this cause. then the political equation changes and people are much more amenable to what democrats and liberals are selling. >> why can't conservatives seemingly come up with an intelligent, compelling, articulate response to the

left's insistence on new programs, ever-greater spending and limitless government? >> it's a little bit like those cute commercials with the guy talking to the four kids for at&t and asks a question is more better than that less? they saw more is better. this is -- this is the built-in advantage that the liberal case sort of has. conservatives have a longer argument they need to make that more sounds better but that if you -- if you pay for it badly or wrongly, you wind up with troubles down the road. >> we've got troubles. we've got -- i think we can start to see the shape and the form of some of those troubles that we have as a result of an irresponsible fiscal policy and so much else. but what -- welfare, entitlements in this country. when we put it in the context of

the war on poverty which began in 1965, the achievements, the accomplishments, there is never a discussion, what has all of that money bought? what has it achieved? what are the accomplishments of government in social policy? don't you agree? >> i agree. i think one of the reasons we never seem to win the war on poverty is that the definition of what it would mean to win the war on poverty keeps changing, the goal line keeps moving. this is partly for politics. this is partly a sort of built in to the administration with the various programs. any time you have a government program that's designed to help people who make up to a certain amount of money, wherever that cutoff point is, people who have just slightly better economic situation are going to have a good case to say, you know, we're not that much better off than the people getting money.

why aren't we getting help? that means over time there's a long-term expansionary tendency, a program like the earned income tax credit started in 1975. the upper cutoff limit adjusting for inflation is twice as high as it was then and grew in just that little bit. little bit at a time. >> we have just a little time remaining. your judgment about the panacea, at least a way forward that will rationalize what we're doing. >> yes. well, i think the -- to get an away from gloom, i think the good news for conservatives is that democrats unlike european social democrats have not been able to sell a package deal that convinces americans that high taxes and generous welfare benefits are a good package. and so, i think this resistance to taxes eventually puts a constraint on spending that will start to make a difference. >> william, the book is "never

enough." i urge you to read it. online now. go to loudobbs.com for a link to the book. william, thank you for being with us. that's it for us tonight. [cheers] [cheers] john: hundreds of union teachers once showed up outside of my office to shout shame on me. why have tenure? now a school reform movemspreadd unions they are don't like it either. get outside of the protest, there is progress. >> it taught me a lot of things. john: now ron paul is a new tool for homeschooling. >> let me hear your voice. john: but the unions make it hard to